Three rookie starting pitchers (Bobby Miller, Emmet Sheehan, and Michael Grove), one bulk inning reliever (Gavin Stone), and a worn out bullpen. What could possibly go wrong?
Did Dave Roberts make a mistake in letting Evan Phillips pitch in Sunday’s blowout game in KC? Probably. Almonte did not pitch well in Sunday’s loss, but it would have saved Phillips from not having to pitch.
I think Joe Davis (maybe it was Orel) who said that the Dodgers have now lost 22 times thus far in 2023 after leading late in the game. That is one more than all of 2022. If that is not an indictment on the bullpen, I am not sure what would be.
But it really is not all of the bullpen’s fault (or Roberts’). When your starting pitching cannot get through 5 innings, as has happened the last four games prior to last night’s, how can a team possibly have an effective bullpen at the end of a game when needing a shutdown performance.
- July 4 – Sheehan 3.2
- July 3 – Gonsolin 3.2
- July 2 – Grove 4.0
- July 1 – Urias 3.0
- June 30 – Miller 5.2
That is four bullpen games in a row, after an over extended bullpen was needed at the beginning of the 5 game stretch. How can a bullpen possibly survive much less strive in that situation?
Many were calling for a youth movement. Okay, you have one. They could be special in 2024. However in 2023, there are going to be a lot of hiccups and short starts along the way. That makes it especially difficult when the only pitcher you can count on to go 6 innings is on the IL himself, perhaps because he too has pitched too many innings thus far in the season.
I know that AF was counting on a second half help for the bullpen with Alex Reyes, JP Feyereisen, and Blake Treinen. We now know that Reyes will not be available. Should the Doctors have known before he was signed? With what has happened to Dustin May, can anyone believe anything about the medical reports coming out for any of the LAD players? Especially the pitchers?
I never expected May to be able to come back (and said so often). I now doubt that the Dodgers will see Feyereisen, Treinen, Buehler, or Lux, even though all say they will be available (or working towards being available) before the season ends. Dustin potentially may have lost 6-7 weeks on 2024 because he waited on his surgery. Just like Buehler may have lost September 2023 because he waited. Just like Treinen lost most of 2023 because he waited. I get it. Surgery is not desirable in any situation. I have been putting off knee surgeries (replacements?) for a while.
Since the goal is to win the World Series and not the NL West or a Wild Card slot, this pitching staff as constructed cannot win the WS. Possible? Of course it is. Likely? NO!!
Has the trade value for Michael Busch gone down? Miguel Vargas? Ryan Pepiot? Gavin Stone? Probably not, but it also has not increased in value as have a lot of younger MiLB players for other teams.
That being said, every Dodger pundit and blogger (save one) believes the Dodgers need starting pitching, relief pitching, and a RH bat (if one is available). AF is far more apt to trade for rentals. That is who he has been. I know I have forgotten someone, but I believe Trea Turner is the only non-rental MLB player acquired in an AF deadline trade.
I think Emmet Sheehan and Bobby Miller are untradable this year. But what about:
Michael Grove, Ryan Pepiot, Gavin Stone, Nick Frasso, Nick Nastrini, Landon Knack, River Ryan, Kyle Hurt, Peter Heubeck, or Kendall Williams. Ben Casparius was rising until his last outing, but he too could draw some interest. That is 11 RHP and 9 are now or were in the top 30 at some point this season. Only Williams and Casparius are not top 30 LAD prospects. Only Kendall Williams is below AA, and he should not be. How about LHP prospects, Ronan Kopp, Justin Wrobleski, or Maddux Bruns. Do not sleep on LHP Moises Brito who is dominating at DSL. He came with Nick Frasso in the Mitch White trade last year. I hope Brito gets a call to ACL before the season is over. It might be fun to see what he can do in the US.
That also does not take into consideration two prospects who unfortunately had TJ surgery last year, but should be considered real prospects…RHP Carlos Duran (turns 22 in July) and RHP Edgardo Henriquez (just turned 21 on June 24). Probably more relief than starters, but then how many true starters are we talking about in the system. Even Bobby Miller is considered to have huge relief risk.
On thing is for certain. The Dodgers cannot use them all. Pick the ones that are more than likely untouchable, and package the others. There are several pitchers at RC, or the ACL and DSL level that will become prospects in their place.
The same is true for catchers: Hunter Feduccia, Diego Cartaya, Dalton Rushing, Carson Taylor, Jesus Galiz, Yeiner Fernandez, Thayron Liranzo, Victor Rodrigues, Angel Diaz… The last two show some real promise in DSL.
AF is far more astute at judging talent than AJ Preller. He does not have to gut the farm system to bring in MLB pitchers and players.
I am flying to Kansas City this AM, and will not get into KC until after 5:30 PM (KC time). I did not get a chance to do the MiLB writeups for this post.
Bums, I hope to set up a meeting with JJ Picollo (KC GM) when I am there to see what it would cost for Bobby Witt Jr.
We are going to be with family, so it will be hard to spend a lot of time writing. I have a couple of posts saved up for me, and one from Bear. I have some ideas, so hopefully we will keep you entertained. There is also an All Star game. So there will be a couple of days without new posts.
A lot to think about Jeff. It’s a frustrating time right now for the Dodgers and their fans. The list of the recent IP by the starters sums up the issues the team is having with the pitching staff. The bullpen has its own problems doing their job. To expect them to take on an additional 2-3 innings per game is not realistic.
I don’t know what the Dodgers’ expectations are from their starting pitchers. I think they should be:
Go into the game with the goal of seven innings. Say averaging 15 pitches per inning that’s 105 pitches. By what we have seen in recent years this may appear to be absurd. This should be the minimum ask by management.
The pitchers should be told that these are the expectations from the moment a prospect becomes a Dodger and a potential starter. Instruct these young prospects to be pitchers. They don’t need to throw 97-100+ MPH. Learn to pitch!!! It will help the player stay healthy, save the bullpen so they are effective when called upon, and help the team win.
I know this will not happen. But, it seems like a simple solution to a problem that is not going away. In fact, the issue of the physical destruction of a pitching staff will only get worse.
Have a great trip and visit with your family Jeff.
Carry on.
Well now we know why Graterol was not used in the loss on Tuesday. He is having some arm issues and the Dodgers will be making a decision as to whether he needs an IL stint. And another one bites the dust.
Totally expect a trade for a starter and a RHB. Other than last year, they usually make trades. Only factor would be if there are artificial budget constraints, which i don’t imagine.
The good news is we have seen a lot of these guys at the mlb level and have probably formed some impressions.
As for Nastrini, Ryan, Hurt, Knack & Frasso . . . Be careful moving those.
Random thoughts from a random commenter:
1) I agree with those who say that the root of all of our pitching problems is the starting staff’s inability to go deeper into games. This puts undue pressure on the bullpen. Get starters to go more innings and the bullpen will improve.
2) When Dodger management says they will examine a player and then determine whether or not to put him on the IL that means he’s going to the IL. Have a nice rest, Bazooka.
3) Doc, plus many of you say we need a RH bat. We promoted one of those a month ago (JDL) and he’s had a grand total of 28 at bats. Give DeLuca some playing time and you might find out you have an in-house solution.
4) The Dodgers will not follow my above plan (#3). Welcome, Tommy Pham.
5) Unless Andrew has totally given up on the playoffs by end July, he’ll bring in at least two starters. They may not make any difference in the long run but he isn’t going to go into August completely depending on the health of Kershaw and Gonsolin, the return to form of Urias and Thor, and the ability of unproven youngsters Miller, Sheehan, Grove, Knack and Stone to get us to the post season.
Here’s a quote from Roberts that sums up the Organizations philosophy on starting pitching. This is from the latest Plaschke article in the LA Times.
Roberts admitted they were searching for possible additions.
I’ll tranlsate this.
“I think starting pitching is always helpful,”– This means they do not view starting pitching as valuable nor a necessity. It’s a side piece, and optional component. This is why they lose
“And are we looking and kicking tires? Absolutely. Talk about where we’re at on the depth chart, guys we’ve kind of gone through, guys that potentially could come back, which is still an unknown…So I think, to your question, that’s always helpful.”
Let’s break this down. What Roberts is saying, is they will look in the depleted farm system for more 3-4 inning “starters” before making any kind of trade. Guys we’ve kind of gone through meaning the walking wounded, and other retreads like Syndergaard or Micheal Grove. They would rather just constantly recylce those bums first, before spending money, making trades, or committing any kind of resources. “Which is still an unknown”, No Dave, it is not an unknown, it’s well known Syndergaard and Grove suck. May and Pepiot are not coming back. Maybe Buehler could be back very late in season.
“That’s always helpful”- means, we have no plan to fix the pitching staff, none whatsoever. We’ll just keep doing the same things we’ve been doing that do not work, over and over and over again.
I’ve always liked the LA Times, because they are one of the few publications that call them out on this, and do not mince words. They’re not afraid to tell it like it is. It’s this kind of thinking that is the primary reason the Dodgers lose in the playoffs every year.
Daniel Hudson has just been put on the IL with an MCL sprain.
That may be enough to end his career.
What a shame. Don’t know how he made it through the 9th last night (assuming it happened last night).
Now we can add a veteran bullpen closer-type guy to the 2 starters we’re going to get at the deadline.
Or we could just sell off all the expiring contracts, bring up all the kids, and see what we have.
Hudson hurt his other knee is last nights game. Will be out a while.
Daniel Hudson has had a relatively long, successful career. No need to feel for him. I feel for Dustin May, and to an extent Walker Buehler.
And I have no problem with giving pitchers opportunity to rebuild their careers. It’s worked before. It worked last year.
Scott, if you’re around today, I’d like to continue our roster conversation from yesterday.
I asked what you would have done differently and you answered that you wouldn’t have signed all those injury-prone guys. You said there were many better options out there last winter.
OK, I hear you. Now, that you’ve said what you wouldn’t have done, please tell me specifically what you would have done. Who would you have gone after. Free agents and/or trades and if a trade who would you have offered in return?
Plaschke thinks Beiber. Why? Because Beiber is from Laguna Hills
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This might not fit in with the main Post which I will call the “Scott”.
With that, I was glad to see Muncy hit the ball to left center field yesterday. Hopefully he will do more of that.
Urias might be back. He is needed.
What the hell is going on with this pitching staff? Wednesday you have Graterol declared out for shoulder soreness(?) and pitches last night. Can we believe anything this team says about injuries? Then Daniel Hudson finally returns to the mound. He’s going to be the key to the turnaround for the bullpen. In his second outing it’s a “Kenley Jansen” high wire act before getting a save. The reward for his work. He damages his other knee and is probably out for the season. Well, that didn’t take long! Why would any pitcher want to take the mound for this team right now? That being said, Urias was outstanding last night. Even the two runs scored against him were suspect because of a poor play by Peralta. Julio didn’t let the play get to him. Watch and observe Bobby Miller!
Yesterday’s back and forth by Scott and others concerning the current Dodger pitching staff got a bit heated. I get Scott’s frustration with 2023 Dodger pitching. I think most of us feel those frustrations. Before the season we usually try to ignore injuries when projecting starters and the bullpen. We know they’re going to happen, but try not to acknowledge them until the reality happens. The last time I checked the Dodgers have used 31 pitchers so far this year. Scott, when asked, didn’t have any pitching trades or FA signing he wanted to see AF do in the offseason. So, to criticize AF after the fact is a bit weak. I, too, have complained about AF’s history of signing so many pitchers (like the ones Scott listed) that are injured at signing and never throw a pitch for the team. Tens of millions pissed away. And, who could have predicted all this injuries? And, it appears that all the highly touted pitching prospects were overrated or not ready for MLB.
For Scott’s criticism that AF can’t put a pitching staff together and is the reason can’t win in the postseason I give him these stats (not frustrated thoughts):
MLB team pitching stats
2023 – #23 4.50
2022 – #1 2.80
2021 – #1 3.01
2020 – #1 3.02
2019 – #1 3.37
2018 – #2 3.38
2017 – #2 3.38
2016 – #5 3.70
Not bad for an incompetent General Manager. Just saying.
Carry on.